In the lead-up to Lorde’s fourth studio album Virgin, the indie-pop icon’s gender identity has become a hot topic. From sharing that her “gender is broadening” to wearing a Met Gala look that she said reflects “where [she’s] at gender-wise,” Lorde has made it clear that she’s thinking lots about her gender lately, and fans couldn’t help but join in.
Now, in a new cover story for Rolling Stone, Lorde clarified her gender identity — and like all expressions of gender, it doesn’t fit neatly into a binary box.
According to the article, the yet-unreleased opening track on Virgin contains the lyric, “Some days I’m a woman/Some days I’m a man.” When asked point-blank how she identifies now, Lorde said she’s already been asked that question by none other than fellow pop star (and now good friend) Chappell Roan.
“She was like, ‘So, are you nonbinary now?’” Lorde recalled. “And I was like, ‘I’m a woman except for the days when I’m a man.’ I know that’s not a very satisfying answer, but there’s a part of me that is really resistant to boxing it up.”
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The article went on to explain that Lorde still identifies a cis woman and uses she/her pronouns, though she sees herself as “in the middle gender-wise.”
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Lorde also reflected a formative moment in her journey with gender: While trying to picture a version of herself that “was fully representative of how [her] gender felt in that moment,” she saw herself wearing nothing but men’s jeans, a gold chain, and duct tape on her chest.
“I went to the cupboard, and I got the tape out, and I did it to myself,” Lorde went on. “I have this picture staring at myself. I was blond [at the time]. It scared me what I saw. I didn’t understand it. But I felt something bursting out of me. It was crazy. It was something jagged.”
That said, Lorde doesn’t identify as trans, and she spoke to her admiration for those who do, especially in the face of governments attempting to deny their existence.
“I don’t think that [my identity] is radical, to be honest,” Lorde said. “I see these incredibly brave young people, and it’s complicated. Making the expression privately is one thing, but I want to make very clear that I’m not trying to take any space from anyone who has more on the line than me. Because I’m, comparatively, in a very safe place as a wealthy, cis, white woman.”
Virgin releases June 27. The first single, “What Was That,” is out now; check out the music video below.
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