In the latest episode of Max’s original comedy series Hacks, famed comedian Deborah Vance (Jean Smart) is dealing with the pressures of being the first woman to host a late-night talk show. As the show’s premiere date inches closer, Deborah experiences a panic attack ahead of the first taping. Still at odds with her mentee and the show’s head writer Ava Daniels (Hannah Einbinder), Deborah insists that she can get through this rough period on her own.
While waiting for the show to air, Deborah steps out for a night on the town with her assistant Damien, played brilliantly by the inimitable Mark Indelicato. Through Hacks’ four seasons, we see Damien serve as a lifeline for Vance’s comedic empire, but in the season’s fourth episode — which premiered Thursday, April 24 — Damien and Deborah help each other get their groove back.
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While Deborah is still on pins and needles about the show, Damien is adjusting to being “an L.A. gay” after having begun his career with Deborah in Las Vegas. Per Damien, being “an L.A. gay” versus “a gay in L.A.” are two different things. He delivers an all-too-relatable monologue in a limo ride to a gay bar about how he is struggling to keep up with L.A. gay beauty standards — the pressure to be muscular, the pressure to have body hair, and the pressure to be in the right famous cliques.
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INTO caught up with Indelicato via Zoom, as we reflected on the fact that he’s been part of our queer lives for nearly two decades. And with each character he plays, he taps into nuanced representation onscreen.
When you first auditioned for Hacks, did you ever imagine it’d be as big of a phenomenon as it is now?
I don’t know that I necessarily think about things being a phenomenon, but I knew that it was something special. And I was already a very big fan of Paul Downs from Broad City, and then later learned that Lucia Aniello worked very closely with him on that. And, you know, so I knew that there was something special for sure. And Jean Smart.
I love that you mentioned Broad City. I feel like that’s where I derive my brand of chaotic bisexual energy.
Exactly!
You’ve been a part of our queer lives for nearly 20 years from playing Justin on Ugly Betty, your iconic guest appearance on The Suite Life of Zack and Cody (the ‘Floss’ song still being a fan favorite), and now on Hacks. What would you say is the most important thing you’ve learned in your time in the industry?
Kindness doesn’t come with a cost. Being a kind person on set goes a really, really long way, and it doesn’t cost anything. The most successful people that I’ve worked with throughout my career have been the kindest to crew, to cast, to writers, to the entire creative process. And that’s something that I definitely want to emulate for the rest of my career.
I’d say so too. I feel like I gravitate more toward kind people in the industry.
Yeah, I mean, being an a**hole doesn’t really get you anywhere. Especially now that everyone has a phone and it’s so easy to get caught with your pants down in that capacity.
The closest friends that I’ve made on Hacks, besides the cast, are on the crew – our PAs and, hair and makeup crew are really incredible people that deserve respect.
A lot of your big moments have been connected to strong women on screen, like with your TV mom Ana Ortiz on Ugly Betty and your TV boss Jean Smart on Hacks. Would you say that your biggest mentors in the game have been women?
I think all of my mentors are women. And I’ve been so lucky. I’ve worked with Ana Ortiz, America Ferrera, Vanessa Williams, Judith light and Jean Smart. I mean, come on. It’s giving legendary. In terms of kindness as well, I think that women energy also brings a lot of that. My experience, at least, has been imbued with such feminine energy in a way that I feel safe. I feel safer around very strong women. I feel protected.
“I feel like the more that you try to be like someone else, the more people feel like you’re trying to be someone else.”
Mark Indelicato
I love the conversation Damien has with Deborah in the car about how hard it is to be the most perfect, desirable gay. First it’s in to be like hairless, now it’s in to be hairy. And then you’ve gotta have muscles. Have you experienced these feelings in real life?
I don’t think that you could be a cis gay man and not experience those feelings of the idealism of a certain archetype. While I’ve felt those anxieties, I’ve always tried to kind of train myself and my mind to lean into me and my own identity, because I feel like the more that you try to be like someone else, the more people feel like you’re trying to be someone else. You know what I mean? It’s disingenuous. And therefore, not attractive. I think the more that people try to be other like other people, the less attractive they are. I like a self-assured person.
I feel like when you exude real life confidence in who you are, when you know who you are, that’s hot.
I have been around some of the most aesthetically hot people in the world, but they have no personality. And therefore, they’re not hot anymore. Like, you’re hot in a picture, but you can’t hold a conversation? Chop!
This season is a lot darker than the previous three. A lot of the scenes between Ava and Deborah, and Damien and Deborah, and Damien and Marcus (Carl Clemons Hopkins), can be really intense. What do you usually do to cool down between takes?
We are really get a kick out of each other, genuinely. And so I think that the cool down is just hanging out. At least for me, it’s easy for me to kind of click in and out of the scene. I don’t really take things home with me that often. When we’re sitting in our chairs in between setups or something, we’re just kiki-ing, we’re just having a good time.
At the end of season 3, that scene between Marcus and Damien, we just kept going. Lucia was directed [the season 3 finale] and when I’m crying and I’m doing that whole thing, we just kept going. Because they come from such a world in which there’s a lot of improvisation and collaboration in that way, they want to keep it moving, and think that works very well for me as an actor. Just stay in it and go, go, go, go, go, and then you’re done.
What was the most challenging part about filming season 4, episode 4?
I don’t think that there was anything complicated. I know that the dinner scene between Deborah and Damian was my first scene that I shot for season four. So it was definitely a bit nerve-wracking. I think it was day two of us shooting the fourth season. So you know, everyone’s getting their sea legs back, myself included, but at the end of the day, Jean Smart is such an incredible scene partner, that anything that I lack, she’s making up for it in spades. I know that I’m in good hands.
What do you think fans can look forward to throughout the rest of the season?
The tumultuous nature of Deborah and Ava’s relationship is what we all sign up for, right? Having watched the first two episodes with some of my friends that are big fans of the show, they’re just like, “Oh, I just want them to be friends again.” It’s very interesting to watch it with people that don’t know what’s happening at the end of the season, because people really like they root for these characters, and it’s so incredible to watch. At the end of the day, you root for every single character to win. And that’s just incredible world building from our show runners and writers.♦
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