In the wake of Donald Trump’s inauguration, watching the United States take a conservative cultural backslide is terrifying for queer folks across the country.
That’s why a decade-old clip of RuPaul is making the rounds on social media, where the drag icon’s wisdom is helping folks process this moment in American culture.
The clip comes from a 2013 episode of In Bed With Joan, Joan Rivers’ interview web series, which aired until her death the following year. When RuPaul was her guest, Rivers asked him about the response to RuPaul’s Drag Race, then airing its fifth season. (Now, the hit reality show is in its 17th season, not to mention its All Stars spin-off, international franchises, and 29 Emmy Awards.)
“Your show is so successful, so amazingly successful,” Rivers said to RuPaul. “Were you surprised? I mean, I adored it from the beginning, there’s no question. But I love gay men, I love the whole world, you know. But everybody watched your show. I mean, it’s incredible. Were you surprised? What the hell has happened here?”
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Rather than talk about Drag Race itself, RuPaul replied by looking at American culture more broadly.
“Throughout our culture, there are little windows and pockets of time when people are open,” he said. “After 9/11, there was this hostility and a fear that was just in the air, right? And you know, after that died down and Obama got into office — it’s not because of Obama, but Obama is a result of this openness that happened. And I think the success of our show is a part of that openness.”
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“Now, obviously in the late ‘70s there was an openness with dancing, and people were willing to move below the waist. And obviously in the ‘60s — there have been little pockets,” he continued. “Actually, when I first hit the big time in ‘93, there was a small window. But those windows close, they open, they close. And I think that is why — we’re experiencing that right now, and I think that’s why our show is successful.”
Ru has walked the walk, she just has so much wisdom
— GreenGay 💚 (@GreenGayYT) January 26, 2025
Ru ended his message with a warning: “It will close again. It’s not always that way.”
“You really think it will close again?” Rivers asked.
“Absolutely,” Ru replied. “That’s the history of mankind. During the ‘80s, I couldn’t believe some of the things that people — even gay people became very conservative during the ‘80s.”
That last sentence especially struck a chord with queer folks across the internet, who’ve had to bear witness to hypocritical movements like Gays for Trump (an oxymoron if we’ve ever heard one) and some gay people punching down on other minorities.
Still, Ru’s message is ultimately hopeful: Even though the window may be closing at the moment, it will always have the chance to open up again.
Check out RuPaul’s full episode of In Bed With Joan below.
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